Esc
Zero to $1.1B from Flipping Websites
Starter Story
Apr 17, 2023
📚 Make Your First $1 (10x Faster) with Case Studies - https://www.starterstory.com/?utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=thomas&yts=true
📩 Business Ideas Newsletter (free) - https://www.starterstory.com/newsletter/?utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=thomas
In this episode I talked to Thomas Smale in his New York City Office to get his story and some advice on how to buy and sell businesses. He's done over $1B dollars in sales without even knowing how to develop a website, and he shares his advice on how to flip businesses, how to negotiate, and how he would start again if he had $0 dollars. This is a perfect episode for anyone who is hesitant on starting a business, and would rather buy one and build it from there.
🔎 Find Thomas
🐦 Twitter - https://twitter.com/ThomasSmale
💼 Website - https://feinternational.com
SUBSCRIBE for weekly videos: https://www.youtube.com/ @starterstory
SOCIALS
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🐦 Twitter - https://twitter.com/thepatwalls
Chapters
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Transcript
Chapters
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No tools listed for this business.
I've
helped
people
sell
over
a
billion
dollars
of
businesses
Meet
Thomas
He
went
from
flipping
websites
in
his
dorm
room
for
a
hundred
bucks
to
selling
over
one
billion
dollars
in
online
businesses
And
it
took
a
very
very
long
time
to
get
to
that
stage
He
invited
me
up
to
his
office
in
New
York
City
to
tell
his
story
and
show
me
how
anyone
can
become
rich
by
buying
and
selling
businesses
My
first
deal
was
selling
like
a
hundred
dollars
into
five
hundred
dollars
and
now
we
regularly
close
eight
figure
transactions
You
are
not
going
to
make
your
living
long
term
buying
things
for
a
hundred
dollars
and
selling
them
for
two
hundred
You
will
do
if
you
can
apply
that
same
skill
to
buy
for
a
million
and
sell
for
two
million
because
all
you're
really
trying
to
do
is
learn
the
process
He
shares
a
master
class
on
how
to
flip
businesses
for
profit
how
to
negotiate
deals
and
how
you
can
buy
your
first
business
with
zero
dollars
Welcome
to
Starter
Story
All
right
so
let's
go
back
to
the
early
days
I
know
you
got
a
big
team
now
You're
in
this
big
fancy
Manhattan
high
rise
but
how
did
you
get
into
this
industry
Yeah
so
when
I
was
at
college
like
many
college
kids
I
was
trying
to
find
ways
to
make
extra
money
I
discovered
very
early
on
the
idea
of
buying
and
selling
domain
names
and
this
is
back
in
2008
2009
Bought
my
first
domain
name
sold
it
for
slightly
more
money
I
never
really
understood
the
idea
of
domains
domains
because
I
didn't
really
get
how
they
had
any
value
So
I
then
discovered
you
could
buy
established
websites
which
were
businesses
because
they
made
money
and
you
could
buy
them
and
sell
them
for
more
I
think
the
first
deal
I
ever
did
was
I
bought
a
website
for
100
Got
that
to
making
a
little
bit
of
money
every
month
and
then
I
sold
it
at
the
end
of
the
month
for
more
than
I
paid
So
I
think
my
first
deal
was
something
like
100
into
500
and
because
I
didn't
have
any
money
that
was
on
my
credit
card
So
I
was
paying
off
my
credit
card
by
physically
selling
and
then
moved
up
from
there
So
started
with
nothing
Started
out
buying
and
selling
myself
After
I'd
done
that
for
a
while
in
2010
when
I
technically
founded
FE
International
was
graduating
college
I
didn't
want
to
get
a
job
I
wanted
to
turn
it
into
a
full
time
business
but
because
I
didn't
have
any
money
it
was
very
difficult
to
make
a
full
time
living
buying
and
selling
So
I
wrote
a
book
about
buying
and
selling
websites
domains
So
I
thought
back
then
it
was
very
popular
I
got
really
fortunate
It
got
off
the
ground
started
making
enough
to
pay
rent
I
thought
I
would
never
have
to
do
anything
other
than
just
sell
courses
or
sell
books
essentially
What
ended
up
happening
is
people
that
would
go
through
the
course
and
they'd
read
the
book
and
they'd
say
Thomas
I've
watched
all
the
videos
read
the
book
listened
to
everything
I'm
in
the
membership
area
I
have
a
business
Can
you
sell
it
for
me
So
I
had
no
idea
what
M
A
was
either
and
I
thought
well
I
can
help
you
sell
I
don't
have
to
put
up
any
money
myself
It's
a
process
I
already
understand
and
I
can
get
paid
to
do
that
So
that's
how
I
accidentally
stumbled
into
M
A
There
was
no
M
A
firms
that
did
this
There
were
no
business
brokers
If
you
had
a
really
big
business
you
couldn't
call
a
big
investment
bank
because
they
wouldn't
return
your
phone
call
So
very
much
offered
a
service
that
no
one
else
did
and
really
built
it
from
there
Okay
So
in
college
you
were
just
flipping
websites
almost
like
for
fun
Can
you
tell
me
a
little
bit
more
about
that
Yeah
I
think
at
the
time
when
you're
in
college
if
you
didn't
have
any
money
like
I
didn't
you
had
to
make
some
money
somehow
So
the
option
was
either
go
work
at
a
bar
work
at
a
restaurant
or
find
a
way
to
make
money
myself
So
after
I
did
my
first
deal
and
even
though
it
was
only
a
tiny
amount
of
money
I
figured
it's
something
you
can
do
basically
any
time
of
day
as
long
as
you
had
a
laptop
and
an
internet
connection
My
challenge
was
always
the
fact
I
just
didn't
have
any
money
So
the
challenge
I
always
set
myself
was
either
max
out
my
credit
card
or
put
as
much
as
I
could
on
my
credit
card
at
the
beginning
of
the
month
month
and
then
try
sell
it
by
the
end
of
the
month
And
if
I
hadn't
it'd
be
accruing
interest
So
it
was
kind
of
an
incentive
to
get
a
deal
done
Businesses
like
yours
and
like
helpful
resources
didn't
exist
15
years
ago
There's
no
way
you
could
go
to
learn
about
how
to
build
a
business
So
there
were
some
forums
Forums
don't
really
exist
today
People
go
in
Facebook
groups
They
go
on
Twitter
They
go
on
TikTok
wherever
they
might
be
But
that's
where
people
now
discover
information
and
tips
But
back
then
there
was
no
playbook
You
had
to
figure
it
out
That's
what
I
did
for
a
long
time
So
I
was
very
much
self
taught
I
think
if
I
were
to
start
the
business
today
I
probably
would
have
never
started
the
same
business
because
there's
so
much
information
out
there
I
probably
would
have
found
something
else
to
start
that
I
would
have
found
equally
interesting
You
finished
up
with
college
and
you
sold
a
course
course
and
you
made
30
000
on
that
course
Then
you
took
that
money
and
reinvested
and
actually
started
the
firm
How
did
that
look
at
the
time
I
think
one
of
the
first
things
I
learned
very
early
on
is
I
didn't
know
how
to
do
everything
And
as
you
grow
in
your
business
you'll
realize
that
becomes
even
more
the
case
and
you
get
to
the
stage
as
you
scale
where
you
should
just
focus
on
the
things
you
are
best
at
And
if
you're
not
the
best
at
it
you
should
hire
people
to
do
that
Believe
it
or
not
I
was
not
in
any
way
technical
So
buying
and
selling
websites
but
I
had
no
idea
and
I
still
don't
today
Anything
server
related
anything
technical
I
could
make
some
basic
edits
myself
but
that
was
really
it
So
the
first
thing
I
did
was
we
opened
a
small
office
and
we
hired
two
people
They
were
helping
on
the
technical
side
I
was
essentially
doing
all
the
selling
and
that
was
the
very
early
days
of
the
business
My
current
business
partner
Ismail
joined
He'd
worked
at
a
big
investment
bank
came
into
what
we
were
doing
and
applied
everything
he
had
learned
doing
multi
billion
dollar
transactions
to
the
tiny
the
biggest
deal
we'd
done
back
then
was
30
000
applying
the
same
processes
to
that
So
2012
onwards
that
was
really
how
we
got
the
business
off
the
ground
because
if
it's
always
just
you
and
you
never
hire
any
people
it's
very
difficult
to
scale
And
I
knew
from
the
start
I
didn't
want
to
be
a
freelancer
which
is
a
perfectly
good
way
to
make
a
living
living
if
that's
what
you
wanted
to
do
I
wanted
to
build
a
business
and
the
only
way
you
do
that
is
by
hiring
people
When
you
look
back
at
that
time
what
was
your
biggest
learnings
from
that
I
think
firstly
once
you
have
some
scale
so
you're
making
some
money
you
have
to
look
at
things
very
objectively
look
at
the
data
and
make
a
decision
what
is
most
profitable
for
you
and
your
business
So
Ismail
came
in
I
remember
we
had
this
conversation
very
early
on
He
said
Thomas
you're
working
on
four
different
parts
of
the
business
This
part
makes
all
the
money
These
parts
do
not
make
so
much
but
you're
spending
80
of
your
time
on
the
things
that
don't
make
any
money
So
you
could
call
it
Pareto
principle
I
was
spending
20
of
my
time
on
the
thing
that
made
80
of
the
money
So
we
said
and
we
decided
why
continue
doing
the
other
things
Let's
stop
doing
them
and
focus
on
the
things
that
are
working
But
yeah
very
early
on
we
were
data
driven
and
it
was
really
just
what
made
us
the
most
money
And
like
ultimately
we
were
trying
to
build
a
business
You
don't
have
a
business
if
you're
not
making
money
So
that's
what
we
decided
to
do
For
our
audience
who
wants
to
maybe
find
the
first
business
that
they'll
buy
what
would
you
be
your
advice
on
how
to
find
good
businesses
for
cheap
Yeah
so
the
first
thing
you
need
to
do
is
figure
out
what
you
want
to
invest
There's
no
point
looking
for
a
business
to
acquire
acquire
if
you
don't
know
how
much
money
you
have
have
or
what
you're
looking
to
achieve
So
start
with
budget
Start
by
identifying
a
business
model
you're
comfortable
with
So
maybe
you
want
to
buy
a
blog
Maybe
it's
a
SaaS
business
There's
no
right
or
wrong
answer
to
what
you
want
to
buy
From
there
once
you've
established
what
your
budget
is
then
the
best
way
to
find
potential
deals
is
email
people
reach
out
The
great
thing
about
the
internet
today
is
it's
relatively
easy
to
find
out
where
people
are
hanging
out
So
find
them
and
reach
out
in
a
human
way
You
don't
even
in
the
first
message
have
to
tell
them
you
want
to
buy
their
business
Maybe
you
just
want
to
have
a
conversation
I
would
definitely
avoid
a
generic
message
because
if
you
want
to
get
hold
of
a
busy
founder
like
me
for
example
if
you
reach
out
and
say
hey
Thomas
love
what
you're
building
Can
we
do
a
phone
call
The
answer
is
always
going
to
be
no
If
you
explain
what
you're
doing
like
hey
I'm
starting
out
I'm
looking
to
acquire
a
business
Yours
looks
like
a
great
fit
Are
you
interested
in
a
conversation
Then
if
it
is
a
potential
good
fit
and
they're
interested
they
will
reply
to
you
And
from
there
there's
no
tricks
You
don't
have
to
be
technical
about
it
particularly
if
it's
a
small
business
If
you're
buying
something
for
10
000
you
don't
need
to
hire
a
firm
like
us
You
don't
need
professional
advice
It's
really
that
kind
of
human
connection
A
lot
of
it's
gut
feeling
I
want
to
explore
more
about
what
makes
a
good
business
You've
looked
at
probably
thousands
or
maybe
tens
of
thousands
of
businesses
When
you
see
a
business
and
you're
like
that's
a
great
business
I
want
to
buy
this
business
What
does
that
look
like
to
you
So
generally
good
businesses
are
evergreen
By
that
that
means
they're
offering
something
that's
forever
going
to
be
interesting
That
doesn't
mean
the
product
you're
selling
or
the
software
or
the
information
you're
giving
away
has
to
be
relevant
forever
But
it
does
mean
that
the
audience
you're
building
building
and
the
customers
you're
building
building
should
be
able
to
be
interested
in
the
niche
or
the
industry
you're
building
in
forever
The
second
part
of
that
is
good
businesses
and
great
businesses
have
repeat
and
recurring
customers
That
doesn't
necessarily
mean
you
have
to
build
a
SaaS
business
where
people
pay
you
100
1
000
every
month
to
access
your
product
But
what
it
probably
means
if
you're
selling
a
physical
product
or
a
digital
product
or
whatever
it
might
be
do
you
have
people
coming
back
So
that
could
be
using
a
newsletter
could
be
you
email
people
on
a
consistent
basis
So
you
have
to
have
some
repeat
or
recurring
business
It
doesn't
necessarily
mean
you
can't
build
a
business
without
that
but
it's
much
much
easier
if
you
have
100
to
spend
on
marketing
It's
always
better
to
spend
that
100
making
more
out
of
customers
you
already
have
rather
than
trying
to
find
new
people
and
persuading
them
to
spend
money
when
they
don't
know
who
you
are
or
what
your
business
is
And
then
the
third
thing
that
makes
a
really
good
business
is
ultimately
a
business
that's
growing
Growing
businesses
have
advantages
for
many
different
reasons
but
particularly
when
it
comes
to
M
A
and
selling
your
business
buyers
are
almost
always
willing
to
pay
more
for
a
company
that's
growing
growing
than
a
company
that's
not
growing
All
right
so
let's
talk
successes
What
was
your
most
successful
deal
or
at
least
a
business
that
you
bought
or
sold
that
really
changed
the
game
for
you
The
first
deal
for
us
which
really
moved
the
needle
needle
and
changed
the
business
into
a
completely
different
level
was
the
first
time
we
sold
an
eight
figure
business
So
that
means
a
business
that
sold
for
over
10
million
In
the
M
A
space
at
that
level
you
start
breaking
into
a
different
level
of
deals
You
start
attracting
a
different
type
of
client
and
it
took
a
very
very
long
time
to
get
to
that
stage
And
the
nature
of
M
A
is
once
you've
done
one
deal
it
then
compounds
and
you
do
more
and
more
and
now
we
regularly
close
eight
figure
transactions
But
yeah
the
very
first
deal
over
that
level
was
at
least
starting
in
the
industry
no
one
was
selling
businesses
over
10
million
The
biggest
deals
you'd
see
would
be
100
000
500
000
maybe
a
million
So
first
deal
over
10
million
and
then
it
really
like
compounded
and
snowballed
from
there
And
what
did
that
deal
look
like
or
how
did
it
manifest
So
it
actually
came
from
a
referral
from
a
past
client
we'd
worked
with
We
had
sold
a
smaller
business
for
him
and
he
said
if
I
was
going
to
trust
anyone
with
my
business
it
would
be
FE
International
So
the
client
knew
we
hadn't
sold
anything
that
big
before
but
because
they
had
the
referral
they
knew
we
would
do
a
good
job
and
ultimately
we
did
And
really
the
difference
between
selling
a
million
dollar
business
and
20
million
business
isn't
really
that
different
It's
slightly
more
technical
It
takes
a
bit
more
time
It
involves
generally
more
attorneys
and
accountants
and
different
third
parties
but
fundamentally
if
you
know
how
to
sell
something
for
a
million
you
can
sell
something
for
20
What
kind
of
commission
or
structure
do
you
usually
get
on
a
deal
like
that
or
generally
in
the
M
A
space
Yes
it
depends
on
the
size
of
the
deal
but
fees
generally
on
smaller
transactions
start
at
15
and
then
tear
down
So
the
bigger
the
business
gets
the
lower
the
fee
you
get
to
and
that
really
continues
to
tear
up
until
you
have
a
multi
billion
dollar
business
fees
will
be
even
lower
So
if
you're
selling
something
for
100
000
while
it
would
be
too
small
for
us
you're
probably
going
to
be
paying
15
If
you're
selling
a
business
for
100
million
you're
going
to
be
paying
significantly
less
than
that
All
right
let's
talk
pricing
and
valuation
If
you
sell
a
business
is
it
generally
a
multiple
of
revenue
or
profit
or
how
does
that
look
So
for
most
small
businesses
so
probably
everyone
listening
you
generally
don't
get
a
revenue
multiple
There's
a
lot
of
misinformation
out
there
around
valuations
but
revenue
multiples
are
uncommon
You
generally
get
a
multiple
of
profit
I
think
the
reason
sometimes
that
misinformation
gets
spread
around
is
a
lot
of
small
businesses
if
you're
running
them
by
yourself
your
revenue
and
profit
number
might
be
really
similar
We
see
lots
of
businesses
which
make
50
000
a
month
but
only
have
5
000
a
month
in
expenses
That's
fine
but
you're
still
going
to
get
a
multiple
of
profit
and
that
multiple
range
can
really
vary
Like
the
average
small
business
is
probably
in
the
four
to
ten
times
annual
profit
range
Like
really
good
businesses
might
be
higher
than
that
like
bad
businesses
might
be
below
that
or
not
sellable
at
all
But
generally
you're
going
to
be
like
the
middle
of
that
range
for
the
majority
of
businesses
particularly
if
you
have
recurring
customers
you're
growing
and
you're
in
a
space
which
is
going
to
be
around
for
a
long
time
Okay
I
think
a
lot
of
people
me
included
back
in
the
day
dream
about
building
a
business
with
their
own
idea
but
that
comes
with
a
lot
of
downsides
The
idea
might
not
work
out
you
lose
momentum
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
upside
to
buying
a
business
business
rather
than
starting
it
So
what
does
that
look
like
to
you
Yeah
so
the
worst
thing
about
buying
a
business
is
you
need
the
money
The
best
thing
is
almost
everything
else
So
if
you're
buying
a
business
assuming
it's
making
some
money
money
and
you
shouldn't
buy
a
business
if
it
isn't
making
money
depending
on
your
skill
set
you
might
identify
something
that
the
existing
owner
has
done
a
good
job
of
but
you
don't
really
know
much
about
or
something
they
haven't
done
much
of
that
you
can
do
a
really
good
job
with
So
a
good
example
might
be
a
software
business
People
buy
good
software
businesses
which
are
small
The
founder
of
the
business
is
extremely
technical
but
they
don't
know
how
to
do
marketing
So
if
you're
a
good
marketer
you
can
take
that
business
which
has
traction
you
can
build
doesn't
even
need
to
be
multiple
marketing
campaigns
You
can
build
SEO
campaigns
social
media
campaigns
email
campaigns
whatever
it
might
be
to
build
that
business
But
the
variable
you're
never
worrying
about
is
will
someone
pay
for
it
Because
it
already
has
an
audience
and
does
the
product
work
Because
again
it's
already
got
people
paying
for
it
So
that's
generally
the
best
way
to
approach
something
if
you're
going
to
buy
it
Buy
something
where
your
skill
set
can
add
to
it
You
don't
necessarily
need
to
have
the
same
skills
as
the
founder
Ideally
you
need
to
have
slightly
different
skills
All
right
let's
talk
about
negotiation
Everyone's
thinking
about
that
when
they
go
to
buy
How
can
you
get
the
best
price
as
a
buyer
and
sell
for
the
most
as
a
seller
How
does
negotiation
typically
work
in
your
experience
The
thing
with
negotiation
is
firstly
negotiation
is
a
really
useful
skill
to
learn
because
you
can
use
it
in
every
single
part
of
your
life
That
doesn't
mean
I'm
suggesting
you
go
into
a
grocery
store
and
start
negotiating
the
price
of
apples
but
you
can
do
many
many
different
things
if
you're
a
good
negotiator
When
it
comes
to
buying
or
selling
a
business
the
first
thing
to
think
about
as
a
seller
or
a
buyer
it
doesn't
matter
which
side
of
the
table
you're
on
is
what
are
you
trying
to
achieve
Is
it
the
most
money
possible
in
your
bank
account
if
you're
a
seller
Is
it
the
least
amount
of
transition
time
possible
as
a
seller
seller
Is
it
you
want
to
sell
to
someone
who's
going
to
maintain
the
business
as
you
have
been
and
keep
the
same
team
And
then
often
as
a
seller
it's
a
bit
of
a
trade
off
You
will
get
multiple
offers
on
the
table
and
all
of
them
will
be
different
You
won't
have
two
offers
which
are
exactly
the
same
So
you
might
have
one
buyer
who
offers
you
the
most
cash
but
they
want
the
longest
transition
period
So
they
want
you
to
work
for
them
for
two
years
and
then
you
might
get
another
offer
which
is
slightly
lower
amount
cash
but
they're
happy
for
you
to
leave
the
business
in
three
months
So
when
it
comes
to
negotiating
and
approaching
that
negotiation
you
need
to
decide
what
matters
to
you
the
most
If
you
don't
know
the
worst
thing
to
do
is
just
pushing
back
on
every
point
and
that's
the
same
with
any
negotiation
If
someone
sends
you
a
list
of
10
things
they
want
if
you
argue
back
on
all
of
those
10
points
you're
far
less
likely
to
be
successful
The
best
way
to
approach
it
with
any
negotiation
particularly
when
it
comes
to
business
is
go
through
the
list
decide
what
you
care
about
and
decide
where
you
want
to
pick
battles
and
realize
that
it's
important
you
give
the
other
side
buyer
or
seller
some
wins
But
I've
always
found
the
best
way
to
approach
it
is
decide
what
you
want
decide
what
the
most
important
things
to
negotiate
on
for
you
and
hopefully
the
best
negotiations
work
where
the
things
that
matter
most
to
you
as
a
buyer
and
most
to
me
as
a
seller
are
different
So
I
push
on
what
I
care
about
you
push
on
what
you
care
about
and
we
meet
somewhere
in
the
middle
That's
the
best
way
to
approach
negotiation
You're
doing
big
things
now
and
you
have
a
lot
of
capital
at
your
disposal
but
what
would
be
your
advice
for
someone
who
has
no
money
and
wants
to
buy
their
first
business
or
flip
their
first
business
as
you
did
in
your
early
career
So
first
thing
don't
necessarily
decide
it
has
to
be
a
business
You
can
find
anything
to
flip
And
then
the
second
thing
is
you
need
to
find
some
money
So
I
don't
care
where
you
find
it
but
you
need
at
least
something
So
either
go
get
a
job
for
a
few
days
and
make
some
money
borrow
some
money
or
do
something
to
get
you
access
to
some
capital
It's
significantly
easier
to
do
deals
if
you
have
a
hundred
dollars
versus
zero
dollars
because
very
few
people
are
willing
to
give
you
anything
for
zero
whereas
a
hundred
dollars
you
have
lots
of
different
options
you
can
buy
From
there
the
most
important
thing
when
you're
starting
out
is
like
learning
a
process
and
learning
how
to
make
some
money
There's
lots
of
people
that
will
tell
you
you
can
do
this
but
it's
unlikely
You
don't
need
to
turn
a
hundred
dollars
into
a
million
It's
perfectly
fine
to
buy
something
turn
that
hundred
dollars
into
150
or
200
or
300
And
you
also
early
on
regardless
of
what
you're
buying
selling
you
shouldn't
worry
about
something
that's
necessarily
going
to
make
you
a
living
living
or
even
worth
your
time
by
the
hour
hour
because
all
you're
really
trying
to
do
is
learn
the
process
You're
learning
how
to
sell
You're
learning
how
to
negotiate
You're
building
up
subject
matter
expertise
You
are
not
going
to
make
your
living
long
term
buying
things
for
a
hundred
dollars
and
selling
them
for
200
but
you
will
do
if
you
can
apply
that
same
skill
to
buy
for
a
million
and
sell
for
2
million
or
10
million
and
sell
for
20
million
But
you
have
to
start
somewhere
If
you
don't
get
any
capital
to
do
the
first
deal
it's
going
to
be
difficult
And
if
you
don't
learn
the
process
it's
going
to
be
difficult
as
well
So
start
small
Appreciate
the
first
couple
of
deals
you're
going
to
do
The
goal
is
just
to
make
a
profit
It
doesn't
matter
how
much
that
profit
is
Some
profit
over
time
If
you
ever
want
to
work
with
investors
for
example
investors
are
much
more
likely
to
work
with
people
who
can
show
a
track
record
even
if
the
track
record
is
small
If
you
can
show
hey
look
how
many
times
I've
turned
10
000
into
20
000
I'm
trying
to
build
something
bigger
Will
you
back
me
If
that's
what
you
want
to
do
there'll
be
options
for
you
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